This week we're joined for the whole episode by our friend Dave Mantel, a fellow musician and producer from Chicago with a unique personal story and outlook on life. The discussion begins with a basic background of where Dave is from, what he does and how he has been in communication with Andy for the past few years, but quickly transitions into a deeper conversation about Dave's history with working for a church in various roles, his struggle with anxiety and depression (as well as how he has taught himself to address those things in a more healthy way), several vulnerable stories involving deep personal pain and loss and his disenchantment with the form of religion in which he was raised, and how he approaches faith today.

Find Dave's own music and the artists on his label at and

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Our theme music is "Gold" by Black Map, used by permission.